Sherri Snelling: What Advisors Need to Know About Caregiving Today

Welcome to Synergize, unscripted conversations where we explore the evolving role of the financial advisor in an emerging AI-driven world. Join us as we bring together thought leaders across a range of disciplines and industry experts, sharing insights designed to help RIAs thrive in the industry of tomorrow.

Hi, I'm Bill Coppel, Chief Client Growth Officer at TradePMR.

And I'm Ryan Neal, senior editor at TradePMR and welcome to the Synergize podcast.

So, when I think about it, Ryan, there are many important topics well beyond money management foradvisors to discuss with clients as they strive to enhance their value, personalize the client experience, and ultimately remain relevant. Today, we want to highlight a topic that advisors may not have thought about bringing into a client conversation, but nonetheless is a very important topic, and it's something we will all face, and it requires thoughtful planning.

Yeah, I think one of the biggest opportunities RIAs have, and one that I loved writing about as a reporter, is bringing in other ways to manage their clients’ financial lives beyond the traditional portfolio.

So, one area specifically which we're going to talk about today is caregiving, something that hasn't traditionally been top of mind for many financial advisors. But caregiving is a topic that impacts virtually everyone, whether it's providing care for a child, an aging parent, a spouse, or another loved one. Ofcourse, sometimes your client themselves is the one who may need care.

So, while advisors tend to focus on the cost of care, which of course is substantial, I'm currently looking at the cost of daycare for my first child, and ooh, boy, that is something. But it's not the only aspect of the caregiving journey that needs to be considered.

Each situation requires an understanding of where clients are in their lives, and the unique underlyingneeds that are specific to each of them and their circumstance. So, with that is a backdrop. How can caregiving, holistically, fit into the role of a financial advisor today?

That's a great question, Ryan. Financial advisors don't traditionally work in this space, and many feel that they're crossing a line and it's unfamiliar. And more importantly, it's an uncomfortable territory to getinvolved with. Our job as advisors traditionally ended at retirement. We gave a client a paycheck and we sent them on their way.

But the check alone didn't fully address a lot of the issues. And caregiving being at the top of that list, thatpeople are facing. I believe taking a more comprehensive approach to helping clients with matters beyond investments, like the implications of caregiving, give advisors a distinct advantage and opportunity to differentiate themselves and ultimately grow their business.

Our guest today, Sherri Snelling, is here to help us better understand this important topic.

Being able to keep our clients as financial advisors and keep family caregivers abreast of what's out there. Again, it's that, aah moment I can breathe. I don't have to worry about this.

This is so great. I heard about this from my financial advisor, and it was just the perfect solution for me.Think about that in terms of your relationship, right? How bonding that is for clients to know that you're thinking about them as a person and their situation and not just their financial picture.

Sherri is a gerontologist with a focus on aging and caregiving. She's also the Founder and CEO of Caregiving Club, a firm focused on helping employers understand and respond to the issues of aging and caregiver well-being. Sherri, thanks for joining us.

Yeah, it's great to be here with you both. Thank you for having me.

BILL COPPEL:

Well, let me start with this Sherri. You know, we tend we tend to think about caregiving in the context of somebody is ill or I have to take care of them, because of that. Well, that's certainly a part of it. What is the definition of caregiving today? How has that expanded?

Yeah, that's an interesting question, Bill. You know, I've written a couple of books and in my most recent book, which is called Me Time Monday, I talk about this kind of reframing and redefining caregiving across our life spans. And I call it generation caregiver, which really lasts almost our whole lives. So, if you thinkabout it, we start life being cared for by parents.

We're going to end life being cared for by someone, probably a family member. And then in between we're forming all these caring relationships. Now, I think one that financial advisors obviously think about is boththe spousal relationship and the planning of buying a home, or vacations and ultimately retirement. There's also childcare or child caregiving where you're thinking about, as Ryan just mentioned, the cost of childcare services. But all the way through college tuition.

And the one we don't focus on is one that's becoming more of a reality for many of us. And that is more of the elder care, more of the end-of-life caregiving that we're now delivering to parents and in-laws and grandparents. And in fact, by 2032, for the first time in U.S. history, we are going to have more people over age 65, so more parents and grandparents to care for than children under 18.1

Wow. That's a that's a really stark number. So, when we think about that and how advisors can think aboutsort of building this into their practice and how they work with clients. What are we as the advice industry missing? What do we need to know about this that we don't know already?

Well, first of all, I think it's just the surprise, as you just said, of this longevity bonus years that we're allgetting. We know that we're getting about 20 to 30 extra years of life. The average age span in 1900 was only 47 years old. Average life spans now are, you know, we're still hovering in the late 70s, 78 to 82.2However, if you think about it, former President Jimmy Carter just celebrated his 100th birthday on October 1. We just lost Ethel Kennedy, who was 96. So, we're seeing more and more people are living well into their 90s and 100s, and we don't really expect that or plan for that. And the reality is, that even though we've got a lot of really thriving, nonagenarian and even centenarians, the bonus years really do mean that we need more care.

We have about 85% of people over 65 will be managing at least one chronic illness3, 25% over 65 have a disability4, and 1 in 3 people who reach the age of 85 will have some type of dementia or evenAlzheimer's.5 So, all of those realities are things that we have to now bring into the financial planning picture across this lifespan to help our clients, as you mentioned, whether they're going to be the caregiver of an older loved one, or maybe just as they're planning their own aging, the types of things that they're looking at.

You raise a great point, Sherri, because as an industry, we've really thought about this from a productsolution standpoint. We call it long term care. And the idea is that can we create an insurance product, as an example, that can cover the cost.

But what I'm hearing here, it's beyond cost. For example, there's another side to caregiving that involves the time commitment and the stress and the disruption in a caregiver's own life and that of their relatives.And it's not insignificant. We don't really plan for that part of it, do we? When you think about it, we plan for the money, but we don't plan for the other things. Talk to us a little bit about what's involved with that process.

So, you mentioned long term care insurance, which is really interesting because only 11% of people overthe age of 60 have a long-term care insurance plan.6 And while for some, it seems like the silver bullet or the panacea of aging. The reality is that a lot of those benefits in those plans are only good for about three years, or even six years once they're activated.

So, what we were seeing as an industry is a lot of people were outliving their benefits. So even if you had a long-term care insurance plan, you might live beyond that. And now the full financial burden will fall on the family or the savings of the person who has that need. I think what's really interesting is the other sideof this is kind of the education gap, right?

There was a survey that was recently done among employees because, as you mentioned, I do a lot ofwork with employers and HR departments about the workplace caregiving. 1 in 3 employees are in some type of a caregiving situation, whether it's a child or, again, an older loved one.7 And among those employees, a majority of them said, oh, yeah, I have long-term-care insurance through my employer.

Well, that's actually not accurate. They have long-term-disability health support through the options they may choose in their health plan. So, this educational gap about really what long-term care is and what's covered and not covered. The other thing is there was a survey done a few years ago that showed over50% of Americans over the age of 50 thought that long-term care will be covered by either Medicare or potentially Medicaid8 if you meet the means test that is typically having lower assets, but Medicare would cover it.

And the reality is Medicare does not cover long-term care. And so again, having that better education, and I think that's a role that financial advisors can really play, where they're helping their clients understand really what these definitions are and where that help may or may not be. And then how are we going to plan forthat gap becomes really critical.

So how do we begin to have that conversation. Because as Bill mentioned in our introduction, a lot of advisors haven't done this ever. Maybe some have dabbled in it, but it's still a relatively new concept for the for the advice industry. I can imagine, “a” there's a bit of a blockage because it could beuncomfortable. People don't even want to talk about this stuff.

But then also, as Bill said, it could feel like stepping over a line, right? Like maybe moving into an area that I'm not qualified to talk about. I maybe don't have the knowledge or the experience. So with that all inmind, and I'm sure some other things as well, how can advisors start to change that thinking, evolve their approach and bring that into client conversations? Where do they what do they even get started?

Yeah, it's a great question, Ryan. And I think that, first of all, the answer is when to start the conversation. And the answer is as soon as possible. Now a lot of people who are younger aren't even thinking about these things. But that's why this reframing aging and reframing caregiving as being something that happens across our lifespan. It's just a matter of who we're going to care for. It's not a matter of if, it's amatter of who. And then potentially maybe when that will happen.

And so again, going back to advisors are probably asking clients about, you know, are you planning onhaving a family or if you already have a small family do we want to start with college tuition planning? What about your own, maybe long-term care or retirement plans. And then the drop off happens, and we don't ask about the aging of older family members.

So, this really becomes more of a family caregiving, family planning, conversation. And I think the best advice that I would give to listeners and advisors out there is start with your own situation, start with your own family.

Think about the questions. And again, you may not have all the answers, but do you have older parents?Do you have older in-laws or even grandparents still alive? Do they live near you or are they all the way across the country? What does their financial picture look like? Would you potentially be called to help with some of the out-of-pocket care costs?

We know that on average, caregivers are in their role for four and a half years. And if you're caring for a living with dementia or Alzheimer's, that average journey is nine years.9 So, this is a marathon, not asprint. And the average outlay of cash for caring for someone with dementia over a three-year period can be anywhere between $360,000 to a half million dollars.10 So that's a pretty big cash outlay not covered by any other benefits other than your own savings and maybe Social Security and things of that nature.

So again, I think it becomes really critical. And I know, Bill, you asked earlier, it isn't just about the financial products. It isn't just about the financial questions. I think that we recognize that caregiving can be a big life disruptor. And there are situations where it will disrupt your work life. It will disrupt your marriage or potentially could. It will disrupt taking care of your kids.

It will disrupt your social life. It will disrupt your own self-care, caring for yourself physically as well as emotionally. And I think when you have a trusted partner in this, which a financial advisor can certainly play that role where they understand all of the aspects of caregiving, not just the cost outlay and thefinancial aspect, but how all these things could be disrupted and be able to give some type of support and maybe even guide clients to different resources that may help out and above and beyond financial.

I think that's where the relationship becomes, again, you really bond with somebody who recognizes what you're going through and helps you out, even maybe above and beyond what they're trying to maybe sellyou or what their primary role is. That empathy and that emotional intelligence really kicks in to be a big driver in making that relationship, I think, really solid.

The other thing, too, I just want to mention for advisors, is it really opens the door to helping familyplanning. You may have clients that are in their 50s and 60s or even 70s, but, you know, are there younger children who are maybe in their 20s and 30s? Have they started financial planning? Can you help with that?

Because, as we all know, it's never too early to start planning ahead for all of the financial challenges and opportunities that are out there in life.

Well, you hit on something I think that’s really important. It just dawned on me that we've been focused a lot here on people suffering from an illness. And we correlate that with caregiving most of the time. And that's not something you can typically plan for -- when that illness is going to occur or what that illness is going to be.

One thing I do know is, as a Baby Boomer, I don't feel old. And my independence is very important to me.And I recognize that as I age, I won't be able to do some of the things I once was able to do when I wasyounger. So, when you think about planning Sherri, talk to us about other aspects of this.

For example, where do you want to live? Are you in the right kind of habitat today? What would that looklike tomorrow? What are my options for transportation when I decide I don't want to drive again? This becomes a part of the conversation, I'm assuming.

Oh, absolutely. And I can relate, Bill. I'm also a Baby Boomer, and I for sure, am not the age in my head that I am actually biologically. I'm probably about 20 years younger in my head than where I’m really at. But it is really important. And I think that, again, there is probably so much information that advisors as well as the general public are just not aware of.

So, there's the cost of care that I mentioned earlier. On average, you're looking at anything between maybe $60,000 a year all the way up to $150,000 a year or more.11 Just in terms of the care that you'll need. Now, whether that care is delivered in the home, because most of our older population wants to stay living independently in their home, or whether it's going to be delivered through assisted living or seniorliving, active senior living or even nursing home, that's probably the biggest cash outlay.

But you hit upon something really important. Okay. So, let's say that the desire of our older parents orgrandparents, again, whomever we're caring for is to stay in their home. Well, I write a chapter in my book called Peter Pan Housing because the majority of the homes that are out there were built in the 1970s and 80s, and we only have 1% of all the 100 million plus homes out there that are actually what we calluniversal design, that are safe and accessible for people who are aging.12

So, the Peter Pan comes from the homes were built for people who were younger that would never growold. And that's not the case. Right? So, home modification becomes one of those cash outlays. What do we need to do? What do we need to think about? And by the way, this is not the home modification of yesteryear. The ugly industrial design grab bars in the shower and ramps and all these other things.

I have been doing so much in this whole area, and it's a combination now of both what we call universaldesign, which is the accessibility for aging, but also, well-home design. So, thinking about air care, thinking about different things that you can bring into the home and they go hand in glove. But you know there is a cash outlay with that. And we should start thinking about that because we can keep loved ones at home longer if that's the desire. But we can't keep them in the same home that they had when they were in their 40s, if they're in their 80s.

So that's just one example. And you mentioned others as well. You know, one of the roles that I play witha lot of my employer clients is to do ongoing webinars on all these different themes. How do I travel with aloved one? What do I need to know if I become a caregiver to someone with dementia or Alzheimer's? What about the driving conversation? What are the alternatives? Uber Health just announced that theyhave a new caregiver app, which is an app that family caregivers can use to get rides for their loved ones, to keep them socially engaged.

Because we know how important that is. Loneliness can really exacerbate chronic illness, and also to pickup on the benefits that are out there, because a lot of health plans now will cover a certain amount of rides under, for instance, like a Medicare Advantage plan.

So all these little nuances and things that are rapidly changing in our world, we may not expect financial advisors to know every little thing that, for instance, I know as a gerontologist who lives in this world, butknowing the basics and then also knowing who might be the experts or who might be the resources that I can guide my clients to to learn more, can I offer maybe some of these webinars that at least helps prompt the conversation and gets all of that started? That can actually be a really easy way for advisors to get into these conversations, is to have some of those topics that they can give to their clientsto take a look at, and then they can come back and have a meeting on, gosh, you know, it really got me thinking about this, this or this.

Yeah, I know Bill wants to ask about technology, but all I'm hearing from all this is just what an opportunity. You know, we've talked so much on this podcast about building relationships across generations, providing value, even just giving those resources, being that trusted person to help clients go through thisor help their parents or whoever it may be through these phases of life, what an absolute opportunity that advisors have kind of right in front of.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I agree Ryan. It's an important point you're making because one of the challenges we are facing isthat there is not good dialogue between generations. And it's largely because they think the dialogue's got to be entirely focused on money or taking something away from a parent or a grandparent.

And, as I think about this, we've mentioned it a couple of times in this podcast, Sherri, is that people are living longer and ultimately, they're living longer with more health than we have traditionally experienced. Which puts a really fine point on everything you've been mentioning which is start when you're in your 50s or as early as 50 to think about how you want to live when you're 70 or 80 or 90. And that isn't about checking into a senior living facility. It's really about, what I'm hearing you say, put in place the things thatmatter with respect to who you are as an individual and the amount of flexibility you want to have in your life.

And that's probably a better conversation between parents and children than the amount of money that they may or may not inherit.

Absolutely. I mean, when you think about things like, you know, let's face it, Martha Stewart was just onthe cover of Sports Illustrated, and she's 83, 84 years old. Mick Jagger is still out there doing concerts, and he's 80 years old. So, the 80 of today, there's a famous phrase out there that that, 90 is the new 40.

I don't know if that's absolutely true, but it's an interesting perception and I think we look at anything over 60 as being this, this rapid decline, decay, all these different things.

And the reality is we can still thrive, we can still have a great quality of life despite our physical and health needs and challenges. Well into our 90s and again, even 100.

So let me let me go back to the comment that Ryan made. I am interested a little bit in the implications of technology going forward. As a gerontologist, you're looking at sort of the whole life cycle from birth to death. And what's hit the scene, and it's hit it hard, is the introduction of artificial intelligence and othermachine learning type applications that are beginning to have a major impact.

The example of Uber you mentioned earlier, clearly when we had rideshare hit the scene, it changed the dynamics of people who were living in an assisted living situation that didn't have access to a vehicle. It gave them a new sense of freedom. What are some of the things you see on the horizon from a technology standpoint that can positively impact the concept of aging, healthy aging with the appropriate levels of access, and how advisors need to be aware of these as part of the solution they may be helping clients identify.

I think the one thing that's really important about the technology conversation, or what we call age tech, is that technology will never really replace in-person in-real life care, hands-on care. It's not going to replaceit, but it's certainly going to aid that care, and it's going to give a little bit more freedom to our older adults and a little bit more peace of mind to our family caregivers.

One of my most popular webinars is the conversation around caregiving and technology. And I update it every month if I give it because it everything's moving so rapidly. But let me give you a couple examples.So, there's a lot of different apps and different devices and things out there that help with hearing and hearables.

There's vision, there's things that help with arthritis and balance because we know that 1 in 4 people over 65 will fall at home.13 And falls are very extreme for older adults. 3 million older adults wind up in the ER from falling at home.14 Let me give you a really great story though.

And I just covered this actually, on my podcast that I do. So, there was a gentleman, 80 years old, living inDetroit with Alzheimer's, and his wife wakes up one morning and he's gone. And 60% of Alzheimer's adults wander.15 So, what had happened is he had just wandered off. Hethought he was going to work. He crossed over a seven-lane highway.

He wound up in a very wooded area that was actually behind a security gate, because it was part of this large complex for this company. And there were a lot of bushes and woods that they weren't using on the property. How he got in there, nobody knows.

Anyway, the reality is he had on a smartwatch, a smart wearable that has the most advanced technology,not just in GPS, but also in AI and neural networking and ultra wideband, which they actually use in soccer games.

But his wife was able, because she had the app on her phone, she knew exactly where he was. So, shetook her car, and she drove as close as she could get to the fence, but then she couldn't get behind it. Called the police. K9 unit shows up. They could get in there. They found him in less than an hour.

That story would have never happened 20 or 30 years ago because we just didn't have the technology and probably very tragically, nobody would have known where he was. He would have maybe not been found for days. And when you have different weather and all that. So, the role of technology can be extremely beneficial and knowing all the things that are out there.

So, whether it's remote monitoring, whether it's wearables, whether it's things like virtual travel. People who loved to travel, travel becomes very stressful and, and actually can be very hard on you physically. Well, what if you had wanderlust?

Well, you can do something called virtual travel, now. There's companies out there that will have a live person who's in the city you want to go to. You set up the tour, or you join other tour groups and you're alltalking to each other virtually and asking questions of the tour guide. So, you still are able to experience that kind of “high” of traveling and have that enjoyment in life.

These are all the wonderful things that technology can deliver to our families and help family caregivers, because we also become a little bit more distraught, maybe even depressed or stressed and anxious over our loved ones staying at home alone. Okay, so how do I make sure they're safe? If you have a loved one with dementia and they leave the stove on, we see so many fires, tragic fires. Well, there's now automatic, devices you can attach to the stove that will automatically turn the stove off when there hasn't been activity around the stove before the fire even starts.

I could go on and on with this, but I think your comment about technology is, again, a whole new frontier of things that are happening and being able to keep our clients as financial advisors and keep familycaregivers abreast of what's out there. Again, it's that it's that, aah moment I can breathe. I don't have to worry about this. This is so great. I heard about this from my financial advisor, and it was just the perfect solution for me.

Think about that in terms of your relationship. How bonding that is for clients to know that you're thinking about them as a person and they're situation and not just their financial picture.

It changes the whole dynamic. Sherri. It redefines value. And now, to your point, an advisor can reallybecome a wonderful counsel to a family who's struggling with this.

Yeah, I love that. In one of my past lives, one of my many past lives, I worked as a personal assistant for a woman who was blind and also hard of hearing. And I visited her recently, and the way she's utilizing her iPhone features that I did not know exist to vastly improve how she can get around day-to-day without acollege kid like me working for her, was really, really cool to see. It was awesome.

So, as we wrap up our conversation, Sherri, other than “me time Monday,” which I'm going to look into andsounds like something I should put on my calendar with my boss. Here's some “me time Monday.”

What we’d like to do is have three practical steps for advisors to help better equip them to work with clients on their caregiving journeys. Can you give us three things that they can take home to sum up this conversation?

I think it's probably what I would call maybe the three Cs. I think the first one is just to connect. And byconnect, I mean get out there, learn a little bit more about this whole caregiving journey across the lifespan.

There's great ways to do it. I do workshops for HR departments, for financial advisors, for others who wantto learn the basics. The caregiving 101. Learn about this generation C generation caregiver. But there's also you can take online courses now where you can get a degree or a certification in financial gerontology. That's kind of upping your game, if you will. It's kind of giving you, a leg up on maybe other advisors. So, I think just getting that education and then starting the plan with within your own family is really kind of maybe the first step.

And then the second step, I would say is to communicate. So don't wait for your clients to ask the questions. You need to almost prompt and be proactive about helping them understand this caregivingcontinuum. And what's the latter half of life look like for both them, but also their older loved ones? And what is the role that they might play? And how do we start thinking about that?

And then the third thing, I would say would be collaborate. Get involved in your communities, not only asgreat referral business. So, whether you're involved with the local, let's say, Alzheimer's Association chapter in your city or American Heart Association or MS society or whatever it happens to be.

Elder law attorneys are another great kind of partner in this. They’re handling the legal side of the paperwork. You're helping with the financial picture and other things. And also tap into gerontologists like myself. Maybe have someone that, again, maybe can deliver some content that you can share with your clients so that you have that expertise and you're able to help guide them or get them involved in theconversation. I think all of those types of collaboration are really important as well.

Well, that's great, Sherri, thank you again for joining us. We really appreciate having you on.

It was great being here. Thank you. It's great to see you both. Ryan and Bill.

So, for a brief recap for our listeners, Sherri shared with us her three C's for how advisors can bringcaregiving into conversations with their clients. That was a bunch of Cs right there.

But the first was connect. Learn more about this, about caregiving and what it means to communicate. Be proactive. Don't wait for your clients to ask about it. Reach out to them.

And three, collaborate. Get involved with others in your community. That could be resources for you.

We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. If you like what you heard, please just take a moment tosubscribe wherever you got this podcast, follow us on social media, like or click the heart button, whatever it may be. And thank you again. We'll catch you on the next one.

And I also want to add my thanks, Sherri. Great to have you on the show. We hope we're going to get you back at some point to give us an update.

And to our listeners, I want to say thank you. As well, and to watch out for our next episode, where we'll bring you even more insights and actionable ideas to help you grow your business. And remember, thechallenge is yours to capitalize on what the future offers.

If you want to join the conversation or connect with us, please visit us at synergize.advisorevolutionsciences.com. This content is provided for general information purposes only.The views expressed by non-affiliated guest speakers are their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of TradePMR or its affiliates.

TradePMR and its affiliates do not endorse any guest speakers or their companies and therefore give no assurances as to the quality of their products and services. This channel is not monitored by TradePMR.TradePMR does not provide investment advice, tax advice or legal advice. TradePMR is a member ofFINRA and SIPC. TradePMR, Inc. is registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission {SEC) and the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board (MSRB). TradePMR provides brokerage and account services to registered investment advisors. Custodial services provided by First Clearing. First Clearing is a trade name used by Wells Fargo Clearing Services, LLC, Member SIPC, a registered broker dealer and non-bank affiliate of Wells Fargo & Company. Copyright 2024. TradePMR, Inc. For a transcript of this episode with sources, visit synergize.advisorrevolutionsciences.com.

1 More people projected over age 65, than children under 18, U.S. Census Bureau. Published Oct. 18, 2019.

2 Average life span, Harvard Health Report. Published Oct. 20, 2022.

3 Incidence of chronic illness, National Institutes of Health. Published Nov. 21, 2019.

4 Incidence of disability, Pew Research Center. Published July 24, 2023.

5 Incidence of dementia, National Institutes of Health. Published Dec. 8, 2022.

6 Long-term care insurance percentage, Kaiser Family Foundation. Published Nov.14, 2023.

7 Employees affected by caregiving, Harvard Business School. Published Jan. 16. 2019.

8 Assumptions about coverage for long-term care, AARP. Published June 20, 2022.

9 Duration of caregiving role, Journal of American Medicine. Published March 12, 2014.

10 Average cash outlay for dementia care, Alzheimer’s Association. Published 2024.

11 Average annual cost of care, Genworth. Published April 30, 2024.

12 Percentage of homes that are universal design, Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies. Published March 2022.

13 1 in 4 people over 65 will fall at home, Centers for Disease Control. Published May 9, 2024.

14 Older adults visiting ER after falls at home, Centers for Disease Control. Published May 9, 2024.

15 Percentage of dementia patients that wander, Alzheimer’s Association. Published 2024.